Raymond Kwan
Senior Staff
Students and staff at Osgoode Hall Law School are demanding an apology and explanation from the Toronto Police Service after one of their officers suggested women can avoid sexual assault by not dressing like a “slut.”
On Jan. 24, a campus safety information session was held at Osgoode Hall, where members from York security and two male officers from Toronto police 31 Division handed out safety tips to community
members.
Ronda Bessner, who attended the session, remembered being surprised by what the officer suggested to women.
“One of the safety tips was for women not to dress like ‘sluts.’ He said something like, ‘I’ve been told I shouldn’t say this,’ and then he uttered the words,” said Bessner, Osgoode assistant dean of the Juris Doctor Program. “I was shocked and appalled. I made contact with the police […] and we’ve asked for a written apology and an explanation.”
YFS vice-president Darkshika Selvasivam, who did not attend the session, also expressed shock upon hearing the comments.
“I’m appalled by the comment that the police officer has made saying that women should avoid dressing like sluts, and I think it goes to show the inherent misogyny and lack of education,” said Selvasivam, York Federation of Students (YFS) executive.
“I think the officer should be very seriously reprimanded for the comment.”
After the session, Bessner spoke with students and student organizations and noted they, too, expressed concerns about the comment. Bessner proceeded to call 31 Division to demand an apology and explanation.
“Initially it was a call, and the officer said he would get back to me right away. A couple of days had lapsed, so I sent a letter,” she said.
Toronto police spokesperson Constable Wendy Drummond confirmed the incident has been brought to the attention of senior officials and is currently under investigation.
“[This is] definitely something that we take very seriously. This matter […] has been brought to the attention of our professional standards unit and is something we will be looking into,” she said.
However, she could not confirm whether Toronto police intend to issue an official apology.
“We are of the position that if these comments were made, it is definitely something that we will [act on],” she added.
Bessner said she has yet to receive an official apology from the officer. She has also spoken to York security and noted that they were also upset by the comments.
“We have a good relationship with the Toronto Police Service and work collaboratively with them,” said Janice Walls, York spokesperson. “However, we were very surprised and shocked by the comment that was made and we certainly don’t agree with it.”
Bessner argued that such comments make it difficult for victims dealing with sexual assault because they make them feel uncomfortable going to the police for help.
“I think the problem with the constable’s conduct was that he was blaming the victim,” she said. “He’s also not making victims feel safe to go to the police. It’s quite astounding that in 2011 that you hear comments like that from a professional.”
Bessner stressed the importance of officers having proper knowledge about sexual assault cases.
“I think it’s really important that the police […] receive appropriate training on sexual assault, so that statements like this are never made and that they understand the dynamics of sexual assault.”
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About the Author
I happen to agree with him. You dress like a slut you will get treated like one. And why should you blame the officer? It’s your society which turns women into chattel by making a half naked woman sell a pepsi or sprite bottle. That’s your progress, your business, your freedoms that the evil terrorists hate. Also, girls today dress like sluts so the whole lot of them take offense when someone tells it how it is. Kudos to you Officer.
Of course the men are responsible who perpetrate this, but seriously, when they chose their victim I’m sure that they searched for someone who was eyecandy to them. They wouldn’t say—choose a hindu or sikh or muslim woman who was covered in their traditional clothing.
You’re just as bad as him. You’re basically insinuating that ‘hindu or sikh or muslim’ women don’t experience sexual assault. You’re saying that men only want eye candy. You’re the one reducing women to their appearance anyway. What about mentally challenged women who are assaulted? Young girls? You’re blaming women for men’s crimes. You are furthering ideas that men have uncontrollable urges and act on impulse rather than the fact that they have internatilized misogyny and feel the need to exert control over women due to their own insecurities about masculinity.
I happen to know a lot of decent men who don’t believe that the way a woman is dressed gives you permission to do what you please with her. I also know of a lot of men who think they have that permission, regardless of the situation or your dress.
Educate yourself. Stop being so ignorant. Your victim-blaming rhetoric is not needed here.
Very well said.
It’s not that the victim is being blamed. You can’t change those around you so you should do everything you can to keep yourself save. I agree that people who are covered up also get raped but you try to optimize your security as much as you can… One way is to dress less provocative and make sure you are always around someone you trust when you are at a party and prevent being in unsafe areas. I think the officer used inappropriate words to say what i think he was trying to say or he could just be a really sick person who believes that it’s ok for men to do it if women dress the way they want to.
I agree, if you leave your car keys in plain sight in your car it is more likely to be stolen. This logic can be transferred to the topic at hand The officer simply made a suggestion without sugar-coating it and he got his point across.
i dont think its about “blaming victims”. it’s about common sense. i think that’s what the officer’s intent was with his comment, though obviously it skirted sensitive territory.
Obviously, as a society we want to ensure all citizens are safe and that we all adhere to the social compact. but that’s not how the world works in reality. While it’d be wonderful to leave precious possessions laying about in plain view unattended, the expectation that we should be able to do this without having them stolen is delusional. That’s why we lock our doors.
Women should also realize that the officer’s intent here was to protect them, not to blame them. Like many fathers, brothers, boyfriends and husbands, men worry a great deal about the safety of the women and girls in their lives. And we know that in a society as hyper-sexualized as ours, that avoiding unwanted attentions often times means applying a conservative approach to how we present ourselves.
Sadly the rhetoric and anger surrounding this discussion does a disservice to the police and to the law abiding citizens. I think it’s a shame generally that we can’t seem to appreciate the nuances of coping with the dangers in life.
Oh, the old comparison to the common sense of locking our door because things get stolen. There are so many things wrong with this analogy.
First, while leaving your doors unlocked makes it easier for someone to rob your house, dressing sexily does nothing to make it easier for someone to rape you. A woman in a long skirt is just as easy to force sex on than a woman in a short skirt, as is a woman in baggy jeans vs hot pants, as is a woman in a t-shirt vs a low-cut top. The clothes I wear do not make myself more or less able to defend against an assault, nor do they prevent me from taking other, more realistic safety precautions such as not being alone while out at night.
Second, all this rhetoric goes on the baseless assumption that the more attractively a woman dresses, the more likely it is a rapist will target her. This is simply not true. Rape is about power and is most often done when it is convenient, as most victims are raped by people they know or who already have some sort of power over them.
Third, everyone seems to be forgetting that sometimes women dress provocatively because the DO want to attract attention – of the consentual kind. Blaming the woman for wanting to look attractive is like blaming a store owner for having such nice and expensive things in his store, after the store is subject to an armed robbery. Clearly the owner should cover up and hide all the nice things so no one wants to steal them.
I completely agree. The part about clothes reminded me of the Italian judge who ruled in favor of the (alleged) rapist on the basis that women wearing jeans are physically impossible to rape.
People seem to like telling women not to dress in sexy clothes, not to get drunk. Wish they’d turn that righteousness to telling men not to rape people.
Are you suggesting that Hindu, Sikh and Muslim women never get raped? Sadly they do. And many of them face ridiculous cultural laws in which the rape must have been witnessed by several MEN who are willing to testify on their behalf or they can’t even report it! Also, a shocking number of seniors are raped every year. So the statement that women dressed “respectably” or women that are not considered “attractive” do not fall victim to sex crimes is seriously seriously flawed.
A while a woman who dresses up to go to a club may very well be there to pick up (just like the guys are) she still has the absolute right to decide who picks her up.
I’ve never heard or read of Sikhs or Hindus having a law where male witnesses must have witnessed the rape to testify on behalf of the victim.
FYI I am a Sikh and have lived for years at a time in Canada, India and the UK.
Actually in most western countries convicting a man of rape is difficult-this is reflected in the conviction rate for rape cases (Google it). So to suggest Sikh, Hindu and Muslim rape laws are so woefully inadequate compared to Canadian ones is unfair.
And a women has the right, but how would she enforce it? This is an issue of ideals versus reality and the reality is men are physically stronger than women.
Regardless of if you take self defense classes-9 times out of ten an average grown man could rape a women if he was so inclined.
Its always smarter to avoid attracting unwanted attention anyway.
I’m not saying women don’t have the right to dress how they wish or to dress attractively because after all most men enjoy seeing a beautiful women. But women should exercise common sense too!
I think women need to realize that although the sexes are equal, that does not mean we are the same.
You’re basically saying that you do agree that women shouldn’t dress provocatively.
Come on no one respects a women who picks random guys up at clubs or anywhere else.
I don’t understand why some women don’t respect themselves more. Is it because your trying to emulate some men? Or is that just an excuse-I hear it sometimes ‘men sleep around and they are considered studs so why are women called sluts when they do the same?’ Well thats just a highly reductive and generalized statement that just comes as extremely stupid and not what most sensible people would expect from a university educated women!
Because believe me we are not all promiscuous.
This reflects a bigger problem with our generation we don’t value ourselves enough. Society is way too hyper sexualized (as someone else commented).
Anyway students should spend more time studying and less time messing around at clubs and dressing sexy. Where are your priorities?
FYI-
Please don’t make baseless ignorant generalizations. I am a self-identifying slut, and plenty of people respect me completely. Because many people are not sex-negative fuckwads.
I like to have sex with people I like. It’s enjoyable, fun, good exercise, and generally makes my life more awesome. I am safe, use multiple birth control methods, and get tested regularly. How, exactly am I not respecting myself? I am doing what I choose when I choose with people I choose. I empower myself in my own sexuality rather than letting any societal construct dictate my actions.
However, the most important thing here is that I CONSENT. No matter what the context, no matter what I’m wearing, who I’m with, where I am, I expect everyone to establish consent before having sex with me. I might be dressed sexily because I’m looking for sex, or not, but the way I dress NEVER implies that just anyone can have sex with me without consent. Nor does the way I dress render anyone incapable of making decisions for themselves about whether to rape me.
You are right about one thing and that is our society is hyper-sexualized, but only in that it glorifies sex WITHOUT putting the equal necessary effort into promoting consent work and sex-positivity. We make sex tantalizing without making it empowering. But we need to empower ourselves in our sexuality, not by slut-shaming, but by encouraging everyone to make intelligent, informed, consentual decisions about sex.
Also, in all my sluttitude, I got all A’s and B’s all four years at university. Explain to me what those exactly have to do with each other?
How dare you suggest that a woman leading a sexual life on her terms doesn’t respect herself.
“a women”
what
“a university educated women”
what
“is way too hyper sexualized”
redundant phrasing
Quit school; Marry soon; Let party girls party. You give yourself too much credit and respect, and others too little.
Thank you for replying and yes very well said! It’s sad that there is still such ignorance like that out there…
…and oh it is Brittaney i agree with if that was unclear.
Sexual assault has nothing to do withthe way the victim is dressed but the sickness of the rapists mind! 80 year old women and little girls get assaulted too! dont make excuses for these sick bastards!
The problem is that this is being made into a women’s rights issue when it is broader than that. For example, I should be able to walk through Regent Park at 3 AM carrying a clear briefcase filled with cash, but I wouldn’t because it would greatly increase the odds of attracting trouble. This is an exaggerated example, but the point is valid. Women should be able to dress as they please and go where they please, when they please, but there are people with no respect for the law or other people. The common sense solution is to avoid drawing their attention. It doesn’t make it right, but too many people are in here arguing that women should be able to dress as they please and not be sex objects, when no one actually disagrees with that.
The cop chose a poor word, and everyone has keyed in on that word, but his point is valid. You should be able to dress as you please, but in an area where there is a history of sexual predation, you have to adapt and take precautions. The vast majority of men who respect the law and the rights of women are not your issue here.
You are one of the biggest idiot douchebags I have ever read but I guess thats the downfall of the internet, you have to read the opinions of people who think they actually know something about a highly complex topic- that of gender, misogyny and politics. Get educated before you open your mouth. You seem to know nothing about which you are speaking of and you look like a fool. I HATE people like you.
You discredit your own argument as lacking intelligence by engaging in ad hominim attack. Your comment adds absolutely nothing to the conversation.
I agree with and am delighted at your rage and indignation — but I have to interject at “downfall of the internet.” Such a phrase suggests that the internet was ever “up” to begin with; i.e. that it was ever used as an outlet for anything more than toxic opinions amplified by anonymity, moronic acronym-and-emoticon-based “conversation,” and porn. Sorry for interrupting, thanks for listening.
Wow. Way to go buddy. Misogyny and racism at it’s best/worst, right there. Do you really think that rapists care what a woman is wearing? Women who are dressed conservatively get raped, too. The only thing a woman can do to avoid being raped is to not get raped. Seriously, next time, educate yourself before you decide to put your two cents in.
I was raped while wearing an ankle-length dress with a high neck and long sleeves. I had NOTHING showing. The only person responsible for rape is the RAPIST. PERIOD. Rape is not about sexual attraction, it’s about power and hatred of women. Educate yourself before you open your mouth.
Bullying and murder are about power and control, rape is about satiating one’s lust for sex. Power and control over the victim just happens to be the method used to satiate said lust. Have you ever heard of a rapist raping someone he couldn’t overpower? That NEVER happens.
You don’t have to dress provocatively to be raped, but rape is one of only three ways to satiate sexual lust. The remaining two methods are consensual sex, and masturbation. If you can think of a fourth method, please, let me know so that I will know too.
Joe, please tell me you’re being sarcastic.
How is it that you profess to know so much about the underlying causes of rape? Should I assume that you’ve being researching rape statistics and studying the psychology of rapists for the last 20 years?
Or have you raped before? Did you commit such a horrible crime just so you could get off? Because to be honest, I don’t know a single man or woman who would rape someone, who would put another human being through the terrible hell of sexual assault and rape, just so they could get laid.
And to anyone on this post who DARES to suggest that women are raped because of what they’re wearing, how they’re acting, if they’re flirting or not, or if they’re “asking for it,” then how do you explain that 1 in every 3 women in the US army is raped?
For more information: http://www.stopmilitaryrape.org/
http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/01/26/13rd-of-women-in-us-military-raped/
My apologies. I tried to find Canadian statistics, but to no avail. Instead, I have an anecdote. A friend of mine just came back from doing a tour in Afghanistan (she’s Canadian Forces). One day, her commanding officers had a meeting with all the females in camp. They gave the women a little whistle, and told the women that if they were ever attacked by a man, to blow the whistle for help. A f&%ing whistle? Really? Canadian Forces can’t do better and maybe find ways to deter potential perpetrators?
But you don’t need a Phd to figure the reasoning behind a statement such as ‘dressing a little less provocative’.
You are a women and as such you will never understand how men think irrespective of how much education you have-its experience versus sitting in an ivory tower. Some men are nice as pie, where as some may appear nice on the outside and yet be very evil minded on the inside (e.g. Ted Bundy).
In war a lot of the rules in civilian peace time society are thrown out-this happens regardless of the Geneva Convention and is a sad reality.
I think we seriously need to bring women down to earth-you are not the same as men (yes, you are of course equal I’m not disputing that!). Men can be brutal towards one another-how the hell do you think you will stand up to that? (Unless you are some sort of Martial Arts expert).
The fact that someone would call this “Fair Game” is sickening.
A woman has the right to dress however she chooses. Whether she chooses to show skin, or cover herself should not affect the fact that any sexual assault is fully the responsibility of the perpetrator.
It seems to be a typical defense response to call a woman a whore or to imply that she was “asking for it”.
This post says that “of course the men are responsible”, yet it is said that by choosing unrevealing clothing then a woman is less likely to be assaulted, putting responsibility in the hands of the victim.
I guess I’d better start wearing a parka at all times so that no men will see my body and be driven into a sexual frenzy… don’t want to get myself attacked or anything…
It’s a shame that people still hold these misogynist ideas in Canada in 2011, you’d think we’d be past this.
What a disgusting and misogynistic human being you are. It is people like you and comments like the one you’ve made that have created and sustained a patriarchal rape culture. As a Muslim woman who is a survivor of rape, I can tell you that having your body covered has NOTHING to do with why sexual violence occurs. Sexual violence is about POWER AND CONTROL, not the clothes you wear, and not about being “eye candy”. The comments that you and the police officer have ignorantly made do nothing except re-victimize and re-traumatize victims of sexual violence, and do NOTHING to put blame or punishment upon the individuals who perpetrate such monstrous crimes. Please get yourself a REAL EDUCATION while you are at York, and never make such hateful, disgusting, shameful comments about women who have survived sexual violence again. I am disgusted to go to school with a human being as deplorable as you. May you NEVER have to feel like a survivor of sexual violence and be blamed for the lifelong trauma and horror you experience.
Anecdote is not an appropriate means to determine if fully covered women experience less sexual assault than sluts.
It does prove one instance of its occurrence on a fully covered woman, however, which is more than some are willing to admit is a possible situation. In addition, you have proffered no valid research demonstrating the contrary, instead hoping that your simplistic refutation of an assertion will lead others to believe that its opposite is true.
Fair Game, you are completely right. In the history of the world, a hindu/sikh/muslim woman has NEVER EVER been raped. Women, if you don’t want to get raped, stop being “eyecandy” to men. You should always think of possible rapists while getting dressed and going outside. In fact, why do women even bother going outside? Sure, you could dress conservatively to ward off rapist, but you might accidentally smile seductively or brush your hand against your breast- things that will lure the rapist and force him to rape you.
I’m actually confused why a woman is Assistant Dean of the JD program. Are they even allowed to vote??
Marry me…
A women has a right to wear whatever she wants without fearing sexual assault. Are you actually suggesting that before leaving her house a women is supposed to consider if she looks like an “eye candy” to some sociopath or a pervert with no self restraint? You should be deeply ashamed of yourself, especially for putting the word “freedoms” together with the garbage you wrote.
So by your reasoning their are no rape victims in muslim countries that force women to cover themselves from head to toe. What planet are you from, because you surely aren’t from this one.
What?! What’s like saying that children who have suffered from sexual assault deserve it. Not all victims of sexual assault dress like sluts, and telling girls not to as a step of sexual assault is bound to make victims uncomfortable. Victim =/= enabler in most cases like this.
If your mom was sexually assaulted, do you think you would say “well, were you dressed like a slut, mom?” Or do you think it’d maybe be best just to assign the blame where it belongs (hint: not with the victim) and be supportive.
“Not all victims of sexual assault dress like sluts”
you suck just as much as the person you are replying to .
It is abominable that someone would ever have this opinion, as it is exactly this type of ignorance and misogyny that breeds the sense of entitlement which feeds behaviors such as sexual assault. Rape is a war crime; not because a whole village, city, or country is filled with women who are ‘asking for it’ by dressing provocatively, but rather, because rape is about POWER. Even more disgusting is the fact that you seem to think that women who dress in a way that covers their bodies don’t get raped. Rape is one of the many things a man can use to wield his physical power over a woman (and a man or a child, by the way), so in case you missed the last fifty years, women are people now too. Idiot.
its not just females that can be raped. I was raped as far as the topic im sorry i have to agree with something 9 times out of 10 it is the women that dress provocative that males rape. It does make me sick to my stumach that this happens though. i do have a heart. I know 3 females that have been raped and one mail that was raped and thats me.
And you didn’t deserve it, even though you’re an asshole. Were you dressed like a slut? That doesn’t make it your fault.
Amen sister or brother! Thank you “Winter”!
I just want to add that thinking the way “Fair Game” does is still universal amongst many societies. I was teaching English in Japan in 2001. We threw a party for one of my roommates. That night a foreigner attending the party slipped me the date rape drug. Even though, I’m pretty sure that I wasn’t actually rapped per se he did have his way with me. I remember bits and pieces. He by the way was a fellow English teacher and not a Japanese citizen. I did end up reporting the crime at the hospital and little did I know, police then become automatically involved. The reason I bring this up is that amongst all the stuff I was going through at the time, the police while investigated made me find the clothes that I was wearing at the party that night. At the time, and for a moment the act of photographing my clothes made me feel like I had asked for it. Now of course I know better. Making women feel like it is their fault due to their dress really does re-victimize the victim.
Actually, the statistics show that a woman’s appearance and pattern of dress have absolutely NOTHING to do with her risk of being sexually assaulted by a male. Muslim women DO get sexually assaulted. Older women DO get sexually assaulted. Little girls DO get sexually assaulted. Moreover, the majority of male-perpetrated sexual assaults against women take place in the HOME. I can wear baggy sweat pants on the street AND in the home, and statistically, it will do absolutely nothing to ‘protect’ me. Perpetrators are responsible for choosing violence. Believing otherwise is sexist ignorance.
So Fair Game:
Let me get this straight… what you’re saying is that:
a. Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim women (which by the way, all of whom apparently dress “traditionally”) do not get raped because they are covered up.
b. Only hot girls get raped. No one else gets sexually assaulted.
I would normally suggest that someone as ignorant as you pick up a book or a newspaper, but I’m not sure that even that could save you. I would site some statistics about the sadly high number of women that get raped in all different countries of all different religions and demographics, or even explain to you that a woman has the right to dress how she wants without being sexually assaulted, no matter how provocative it is, or even question what a slippery slope your argument is– next you’ll be saying that if a woman has a drink or two, she’s also “asking” to be raped. But it’s not worth my breath. If you truly believe a woman who shows some skin is apparently “fair game” for sexual assault, as you put so repulsively in your pathetic attempt to be clever, you are ignorant beyond repair. Making excuses for those who would sexually assault innocent women, no matter how they are dressed, is lower than low.
As if infants, the elderly, and women in proper hijab aren’t raped every day.
Nice work, Mr. Troll.
You’re a pig. Sexual assault should never be the storm cloud that hangs over the heads of pretty or beautiful women. Some women can’t “ugly” themselves up to avoid being jumped by a pig. JUST DON’T DO IT! No matter what a victim, especially a woman, looks like.
That’s not true. You can be wearing jeans and t-shirt with nothing revealing and you could still be a victim. If the community start thinking that victims are usually “sluts” as you put… the victim (who is already going through hell for what has happened to her) will start thinking that she is disgusting and blame herself for what happened.
There are people out there that think the victim was probably dressed “slutty” and got what they deserve. It’s those kind of thinking that make victims try to hide what happened because THEY will be viewed as “disgusting” by the community and NOT the perpetrator.
Please understand that it is NOT the victim’s fault. No matter how they are dressed. Why should the victim get condemned by the society for being a victim? Is it their fault? They dressed to impress not to imply that they want to be sexually harassed.
Truly an idiotic comment. There is absolutely no excuse for rape and what a woman is wearing is nobody elses business. Muslim and Sikh women are raped regardless of dress. It’s not a question of clothing but of mens attitudes, such as the one you voiced. Is there a set of conditions that makes it justifiable to violate a persons physical autonomy? The comment has a very wide range of implications and all of them are negative towards women and victims of crime. There is always an excuse by the perpetrators to try to justify their actions.
I think If you were to dress less like a ‘slut’ you might actually decrease your chances at getting raped. How hard is that for you feminazis to understand?
See my response to Fair Game. It applies to you as well.
@Feminism stinks, Sometimes, people have a hard time understanding things that don’t make sense. Let me educate you:
Utah State University Sexual Assault and Anti Violence Information:
Myth: Rape victims provoke the attach by wearing provocative clothing.
A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only
4.4% of all reported rapes involved provocative behavior on the part
of the victim. In murder cases 22% involved such behavior (as simple
as a glance).
Most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing.
Victims range in age from days old to those in their nineties,
hardly provocative dressers.
Utah State University
http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/myths_facts.pdf
I fail to see how not wanting to blame victims for the actions of the perpetrator of a crime, when statistics don’t suggest that “not dressing like a slut” helps, makes one a “feminazi.”
I’m pretty sure my niece could never force someone to assault her, so I guess I must be a feminazi.
I read in the news about elderly women who got repeatedly sexually assaulted by the same perpetrator who would break into the home in the middle of the night.
Yea, shame on those sexy grannies who are seducing men into committing rape!
@Feminismstinks: please do the world a favor and REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THIS PLANET IN THE FASTEST POSSIBLE WAY! may I recommend walking off a bridge?
Firstly, women are raped regardless of what they’re wearing. Secondly, stop placing blame onto women. No one WANTS to get raped. Wearing a certain outfit is not an invitation to rape me. Fuck off.
i agree that it would help however is not a solution and proper security would go a lot farther then longer hem lines.
are you ill ? who doesn’t know that rape has nothing to do with sex, it’s about power and humiliation. are you saying that women who don’t dress like “sluts” never get raped ? or women that people may not deem “attractive” ? did you know that 45% of rape victims were assaulted by their partners, compaired to only 8% who were assaulted by strangers ? this makes it hard for me to think that women are raped because of the way they dress.
you said yourself that images of half naked women are used to sell products and this is half the problem. society objectifies women into nothing more than sex objects WHEREEVER YOU LOOK. and opinions like this do not make it any better.
o_0
And what exactly does “getting treated like a slut” mean to you? Getting raped? Sorry to point out the obvious, but even sluts aren’t out to get raped, they are out to have consensual sex. A man is not some kind of wild animal species that can’t control its urges when it sees a short skirt. Also, rape is usually not about “eye candy” but about asserting power over the victim. And victims are often not “slutty”-looking girls, they can be anyone from your daughter to your grandmother. Your comment is ridiculously asinine and ignorant. Hope nobody you care about ever gets attacked.
You do know that women in traditional clothing get raped all the time, right? The more “traditional” a society, the higher its incident of rape (including marital rape), and IN ADDITION to the higher incidents of rape these women are actively discouraged from seeking justice. You have a serious problem. How about teaching men NOT to RAPE. Dick.
In the immortal words of Antoine Dodson, “You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real.”
Other commenters have eloquently covered all the reasons why you are so dumb. That is all.
Oh I love that song!!!
and it certainly applies to all rapists and rapist supporters!
Oh, of course you are right.
And, if you are robbed, it is your fault because you shouldn’t have bought stuff that someone might want. If you are carjacked, it is your fault because you shouldn’t have bought a car. If any other crime happens to you, it must be your fault for having something the criminal might want.
This all makes perfect sense.
Well Fair Game is completely right. I mean Hindu, Sikh or Muslim women are never raped. Western women only started showing more skin around the 1920’s and that’s right about the time that women started being raped. Coincidence? I think not. Thinking back to when I was raped at 17, I was wearing jeans and a long sleeved sweater. Must of been asking for it right? If only I’d had a burka on to clearly indicate that I wasn’t interested in being held down and raped. I never told anyone about it because I felt like it was somehow my fault. I felt ashamed. I shouldn’t of let myself be in that situation. The comments made by Fair Game and the officer are the reason so many women never come forward when sexually assaulted. That officer should be fired. Fair Game, if you have any females close to you, try talking to them, chances are one of them has been sexually assaulted. Ask your mother, your sister or friend if they were asking for it when it happened to them. Or then again, maybe you don’t have many females in your life that you’re close to. Wouldn’t that be a shock.
You’re an idiot. Men walk around showing skin all the time, no shirts, for example. What is a “slut”? Aren’t men the definition of the word? Also, you may want to look up rape victims–they are the elderly, they are the two year olds, they are the nine-year-old male, they are in prison. Get an education.
You do realize that Middle Eastern women who wear veils, abayas and burqas are also victims of rape? In fact, victims of rape in Middle Eastern countries are subject to public lashings and honor killings because they “shamed” their family by being the victim of a crime.
Rape isn’t about sex, it’s about controlling and humiliating another person. Men can be raped too, so can children and elderly women. What would you attribute that to? Slutty looking 5 year olds? Please.
I feel sorry for anyone you know personally that is a survivor, because clearly you have no idea about the true psychological motivations of rape.
@Fair Game, Rapists will rape people regardless of what they are wearing. No one asks or deserves to be raped. The only people responsible for rape are rapists and rape apologists like you.
considering the fact that the overwhelming majority of sexual assaults are committed by someone the victim knows (relative, friend, date etc.) I’m certain that when “they” chose their victim, it likely was not at random and probably had nothing to do with how she was dressed.
in fact, dressing in a manner that exudes (and requires) confidence would probably deter a man from assaulting them.
nothing a woman says, wears or does warrants being sexually assaulted. it is a act of power and control that is perpetrated by someone who has neither. it is a demeaning and shattering experience that no one asks for. and if you think for one moment, Fair Game, that Sikh, Muslim or Hindu women do not experience this kind of torture, you need to put down your excalibur and pick up a G and M.
wow. check your privilege, asshole.
http://sap.mit.edu/content/pdf/male_privilege.pdf
the definition of “slut” is so loose that it can apply to a woman who has had multiple sex partners, and to a 14 year old girl in a short skirt.
what the crappy thing is, women are judged on EVERY ASPECT OF THEIR PERSONALITIES. a woman is not a slut for enjoying sex or wearing revealing clothing that is not always worn to attract others, but to make the woman feel good.
rape and sexual assault are ALWAYS initiated by the presence of a rapist. the woman (and sometimes men are raped too! think about that!) is NEVER asking for unwanted sexual advances.
you sir, can fuck off.
Even though I didn’t have sex (of any kind) until I was 19, I was labeled a slut in middle school just for having large breasts, which were always covered by baggy t-shirts.
I totally agree with you on this one, girls who want to dress in a certain “sluttish” way, they have to pay for the consequences. 5/5!
“The way a woman dresses or acts does not cause or prevent sexual assault; an attacker rapes someone because they want to exert power and control over him or her. The attacker is solely responsible for the crime. However, this responsibility is lost in translation through the police, the courts and the media.”
from: Don’t Rape (http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/3497)
Curl up and die please. You’ll do everyone a favour.
Since when is the onus on women to make men behave like gentlemen? If you can’t keep your pants zipped, YOU have the problem, not the victims!!
Rape is more often than not, an act of dominance. Sociopathic individuals will commit rape to assert dominance and inflict harm on an individual because that aspect is sexually arousing to them; they do not usually rape someone based on how that person is dressed. On the contrary, rapists generally look for someone who has low self-esteem (no confident, sexy outfit?) and may not put up much of a fight.
Yeah only the issue is the disgusting and unacceptable crime of the perpetrator, not their sexual preference. Implying that a woman is somehow deserving of sexual assault because of what she wears implies that the crime AGAINST LAW of sexually assaulting someone can be justified. Any grown man that is rational and worth a trial can presumably control his sexual inclinations around a girl in revealing clothing.
Fair Game is a troll.
To call yourself “Fair Game” is hypocritical and disgusting. I am appalled by your comments. Clearly, what you said is a reflection of what and how much you know about our society. First of all, sexual violence has NOTHING to do with sex. It is about POWER, HATRED AND VIOLENCE against another human being. Second of all, to say “wouldn’t choose a Hindu, Sikh or a Muslim because they are covered in traditional clothing” is an absolute horrible thing to say. Fair Game, go educate yourself about violence and please keep your comments about our society problems to yourself. Clearly you have a long way to go in increasing your knowledge about something as serious as this.
To call yourself “Fair Game” is hypocritical and disgusting. I am appalled by your comments. Clearly, what you said is a reflection of what and how much you know about our society. First of all, sexual violence has NOTHING to do with sex. It is about POWER, HATRED AND VIOLENCE against another human being. Second of all, to say “wouldn’t choose a Hindu, Sikh or a Muslim because they are covered in traditional clothing” is an absolute horrible thing to say. Fair Game, go educate yourself about violence and please keep your comments about our society problems to yourself. Clearly you have a long way to go in increasing your knowledge about something as serious as this.
It’s sad to know that there are people out there that concludes that women who dresses provocatively are “asking” for this type of crime to happen to them. One does not have to dress like a “slut” in order to be raped. The responsibility lies in the fact that our society needs to educate people of all cultures about violence. It is disappointing that a police officer, someone whom you think that will serve and protect you and your city would lower himself to a comment like that.
Stupid troglodyte!
Some years ago I was raped by a man I considered to be one of my closest friends, in my own home, while clad in a decidedly unsexy sweatsuit and bunny slippers. The only thing making me attractive to the bastard was my gender, my trust and my availability.
hey so if I think you’re dressed like a douchebag I should get to beat you up, right? After all, it’s YOUR fault for asking for it! You’ve got the face and clothing of a douche just begging to get beat up!
first of all, you’re disgusting. Secondly if you dress in a way that I decide is “slutty” I suppose you’d be okay with it if I violently destroyed you too. I dress how I want to because it makes me happy, I shouldnt have to hide myself because people like you can’t control yourself. I hope you never have to experience the horrors of rape but if you do maybe you’d finally shut the hell up
Hey, little boys get raped by priests. INFANTS get raped by sick men. Hell, animals get raped by sickos. I guess they ALL asked for it.
How dare that cute baby wear nothing but a diaper? I guess it’s rape time!
DON’T APOLOGIZE FOR RAPISTS! the only one at fault is the rapist!!!
You’re a troll. Wise up, people.
your comment made me so angry!
so i guess that its your fault if i (fill in the blanks) you!
you have some serious problems…
You’re absolutely right. Because no woman wearing a burqa has ever been sexually assaulted.
Fair Game: I know I shouldn’t feed the trolls here (read: you) but I’m going to anyway because I have nothing better to do.
A) What does it mean to “dress like a slut?” Is it the showing of skin that makes you think she must have too much sex (which is what I assume you mean by “slut,” a woman who has more sex than you deem appropriate)? Or is it the too-much-sex issue itself?
B) Calling a woman a slut is silly, because what constitutes a slut varies depending on the perspective of the person doing the slut-shaming, but worse than silly, it’s a means of silencing the legitimate concerns of women. Women are called sluts for what they wear (even if they’re virgins,) they’re called sluts if they have monogamous sex with one partner (if they’re the wrong person,) they’re called sluts if they have the audacity to have had multiple partners BY CHOICE. None of these things make it ok for that person to be raped. Women aren’t “asking” to be raped if they dress in revealing clothing.
C)Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim women, along with women of every ethnicity and religion around the world are raped daily, regardless of what they wear. One reason this is allowed to continue is because of the prevailing views that rape is the fault of the victim and not of the rapist. When a woman gets raped, every sexual experience she’s ever had, her clothing, whether or not she chose to imbibe that evening, and whether or not she chose to go somewhere alone, are all dragged up and used against her. None of these things have any bearing on her rape- whoever she chose to have sex with in the past has no bearing on this rapist. As a matter of fact, whether she’s had consensual sex with the rapist in the past has no bearing- anybody has a right at any time, regardless of sexual history, to not give consent to engage in sexual activity, and the only one to blame for the ensuing rape is the rapist.
You’re right. about the last part. it’s the perpetrator who is at fault, not the woman. it’s not the woman’s fault the perpetrator is a raging sociopath.
what an incredible double standard. society love women that dress like “sluts.” we see it everywhere, from movies to commercials to ads, all to appeal to the male gaze. but it’s immediately jumped to as an excuse for rape.
not to mention, a very small percentage of rape is the “stranger in the bushes on the wrong side of town at night.” Most rapes happen in the victim’s or rapist’s home and they almost always know eachother.
you’re an idiot.
Attitudes like this do nothing to dispel the problem. Women (and men and transgender folk) of all ages, ethnic backgrounds, nationalities, levels of intelligence, and physicalities experience rape. Research has largely indicted that rapists are not necessarily attacking others due to an insatiable sex drive, but because it’s a way to exert control. Instead of victim-blaming, perhaps we should focus our energies into educating people to not become rapists. I, for one, feel that the officer’s suggestion only perpetuates the attitude that it’s up to the potential victims to avoid getting raped, rather than that it’s a person’s responsibility not to rape.
In no way is a woman responsible to dressing to deter rape. This is nothing but victim blaming and as a social worker who worked with victims of sexual assualt I can assure you that the women who are assaulted are of all shapes/sizes and appearances. It has little to do with sex and more to do with power and control of another person.
Women get raped often in more nylon countries where the burkas or niquabs are mandatory so your assumption is inherently wrong.
While I agree with your views about the current objectification of women in our society, I completely disagree that the way in which she dresses means that she is a justified target of sexual assault. I’m sorry, but no.
A woman has the absolute, undeniable right to walk down the streets of Toronto completely naked without having someone assault them. A woman has the right to walk around dressed head-to-toe in full snow gear without being sexually assaulted.
Point is, no matter what a woman is wearing, now matter how much or how little she is wearing, she has a right to not be sexually assaulted.
Perhaps she invites people to treat her with a certain attitude (ie. treat her like a slut) if she dresses in such a fashion, but in NO WAY is that an excuse for her to be violated. No way, no how.
I was raped when I was asleep in my bed, where I SHOULD have had every reason to feel safe. Obviously you don’t know shit about this subject, women in every manner of clothing and every situation get raped. It doesn’t matter what you where you where you are, the rapist is the one who did wrong.
Actually there’s nothing to prove that. Most rapists know their victim. What she chooses to wear on any given night has nothing to do with the attack. In fact, some rapists will even target women who dress more conservatively. Women in burkas are raped all the time. As are women in long skirts, fatigues, jumpsuits, ballroom dresses, shorts, pajamas ratty bathrobes and curlers. Furthermore, the term “slutty” can mean different things. To some people it means nothing but boots and to others it means visible wrists. Telling a group of women that they can avoid rape by not dressing slutty even aside from the fact that it’s a huge insult doesn’t add anything constructive. There is nothing a woman can wear that wouldn’t be considered provocative by someone. Responsibility needs to be shouldered by those responsible. A victim of rape is not a slut. They are a victim.
Fair Game, I know rape is scary and not something you want to face, but it’s cowardly to blame the victim. And if a guy really can’t get any without raping or can’t control his impulses, then he probably is not mentally equipped to be having sex in the first place. That’s his problem. It’s not the victim’s fault and I think it’s a little weird that you would side with such a loser.
Sorry, Fair Game, sexual assault is not a crime of passion, but one of violence. Read the research; all types of women, including fully covered women and women in their 80’s are assaulted on a regular basis. Stop trying to blame the victim.
I agree. These canadian women are dressing too much vulgar. In india, women are more traditional and we do not have such things. but here i seeing many women dressing like sluts (not that i am wanting to complain). at school, indian girls are dressed conservative and theyr not experience rape but other girls who dressing vulgar and showing body are teasing people. police man said a good point in my opinion.
Can you explain why old women in nursing homes have been raped by male nurses?
Or why children are raped?
I seriously doubt elderly women or children “dress like sluts”. And saying Hindu,Sikh and Muslim women wouldn’t be raped? Please explain why thousands Hindu and Muslim women who actually *report* being raped to authorities never receive any justice?
I guess those ladies traditional clothing was just too….ah, traditional? And that is why they were raped?
I guess I’m just too much of an ignorant woman to understand any of this.
I am deeply disturbed by this line of thinking. By your point of view, I (a human being, as well as a woman) should be blamed for the choices and actions of others whom I have absolutely no control over, because of how much fabric is covering my body! Does this not seem outrageous to say the least? If you were to leave your house carrying a wallet and there is some indication that that wallet is presently on your body, does that give someone the right to steal it? If someone were to tell you that it’s not the pickpocket’s fault, because you enticed him by taking the wallet out of your pocket to pay for whatever it is you buy, would that be acceptable by your standards?
This makes me sick to my stomach. Men are not treated in this fashion, so what in this world that you seem to live in gives you the right to judge women like this?
FYI: sexual assault is a crime of power, control and violence, not because the assailent is so turned on they have to sexually assault someone and people who observe religious conduct by covering themselves also are victims of sexual assault you are an ignorant person who has no idea what you’re talking about.
I am always amazed how victim blaming can be so one sided… Would you ever blame a victim of a hold-up? What about of a car-jacking? A break and enter? Of course not, it is patently absurd; however, if police officers have the ignorance to blame rape survivors then they should also hold these other groups partially responsible in motivating their own attacks:
Perhaps the man who is robbed for his rollex should be held accountable. He dared to ‘show-off the goods’ (ie: his material wealth) and so he should expect to be robbed… right?
What about the old lady driving the $100 00.00+ luxury vehicle? She deserves to be car-jacked. How could she drive around in a car like that and expect not to be car-jacked?
What about the nice couple who worked hard and bought their dream home? Should they be held accountable when they are victims of a home invasion or burglary?
If we take the same logic offered by this Toronto officer than it follows that he would recommend that all these other groups should avoid wearning expensive jewellery,driving nice cars, and owning nice homes in order to be less likely to be victims of robbery, car-jacking, and burglary. OF COURSE THIS IS ABSURD!!!! THESE EXAMPLES HIGHLIGHT THE IGNORANCE AND MISOGYNY INHERENT IN BLAMING VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT. USE YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE…
You are completely wrong, most rape victims are introverted, slightly desperate looking, who are alone, rapists dont go for confident people, they are scavengers that look for easy prey like cowards… only really charismatic sexual predetors/cereal killers go for pretty/slutty confident girls but they have a certain something they are looking for….
those cereal killers will Trix you, Corn Pop you in the kneecap, rob you of your Life, and all the witnesses will be able to say is “I didn’t get a good look at his face, he just shot the guy and Bran.”
I apologize to everyone who is nauseated by puns.
I was going to say “I hope you never have daughters” but I’m almost more scared of what you’d teach your sons!
Rape is not a compliment, you fucking asshole.
Fair Game, show me the statistic that proves Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim women “in their traditional clothing” are raped less than other women.
You show a lack of understanding of sexual assault and society in general. You express racist and sexist idealogies. The majority of rapists do not even remember what their victim was wearing. Your comments are uneducated and offensive to both men and women. You imply that men cannot control their minds and bodies, you demean women young and old. Women should not have to fear violence and degredation. Think of your mother, sister or daughter – if she walked down the street naked and was raped could you tell her to her face that she ‘deserved’ sexual violence? The only people who can stop rape are rapists. Nothing a human being wears, says or does justifies sexual assault.
You’re an idiot. By your logic if some pervert that’s into feet sees someone wearing open toed shoes he has the right to rape her? I don’t care if a woman is walking down the street naked, that doesn’t give anyone the right to sexually assault her. Just because *you* (or whoever) deems a woman a slut doesn’t make her so.
How DARE you, FairGame!
I was drugged, and gang-raped by 6 men I trusted. I WASN’T drinking alcohol, I WASN’T at a club/party, and I WASN’T “dressed like a slut”.
I was on a field trip, in front of a motel in the middle of the wilderness, at a bonfire. I was dressed in sweats and a sweatshirt. How does that scream: “Rape me! I’m slutty!” I’m not even that good looking, and I’m certainly not afraid to admit that! I’m not one of your Top Models, nor do I dress sexy.
I was raped because I’m an independent woman and I don’t conform or allow myself to be peer-pressured or manipulated into doing things. They saw me as a challenge, but knew my character enough to know that I would fight them, tooth and nail, if they tried anything. Which is why they drugged me. Made it easier for them to violate me.
You’re a misogynistic pig! I bet you hate women–which must mean you like men. If you like men that much, leave us women the hell alone and go back to that rock you’re living under. Sure, you’ll have to look for a little while, because it’s back in the Dark Ages.
While I agree that many women dress too provocatively, that has NOTHING to do with rape. I was definitely NOT “eye candy” when I was raped; I am overweight and dress to hide it! Some people are just sick, whether it is a man or a woman attempting the rape.
Hey fair game it is a womens god given right to dress how ever the fuck she pleases. What kind of man are you that you don’t like to see women in provacative clothing?
Not everything the police or the government feed you is right. Go on thinking that you fucking drone. OBEY, SLEEP, CONSUME, REPEAT. Follow those orders and you’l be a model citizen
Dear Fair Game,
What does it mean exactly to be ‘dressed like a slut’? Even if you were somehow able to come up with a clear cut definition, what gives you the right to determine it for the rest of society? Moreover, does getting ‘treated like a slut’ entail sexual assault – are you advocating that those who dress ‘like sluts’ ought to be sexually assaulted? This is absolutely unacceptable, and quite a dangerous comment; what’s next, telling women they shouldn’t wear high-heels because they will get sexually assaulted?
Furthermore, as Canadians, we all share this society – no matter what religion, gender, and race you are from. Surely, in the 21st century, we have all come to realize the importance of the freedoms and civil liberties we enjoy; to shoot them down, and argue – in your case – for something that is completely a matter of personal taste is not only appalling, but quite barbaric. I certainly agree that our society has problems, and you are correct in pointing out how the media portrays women in advertisements, and how sex appeal is used to sell goods in the market – but that is an entirely separate issue, for which sexual assault victims should NOT be blamed – It simply has nothing to do with them.
What could you possibly mean by ‘the evil terrorists’? Surely you are not implying that those who perpetrate sexual assault are terrorists; as wrong, and as guilty, as both activities are, they are simply not related. Please take care to understand the different terms, the motivations lying behind such activities, and the purposes for which they are conducted.
In addition, when an officer of the law – whose job it is to protect citizens, prevent crimes, and arrest criminals – is taking part in a safety information session, he is not representing his own person, personal values, nor his personal moral outlook on society; he is representing the Toronto Police Department. As such, his flagrantly misogynistic, sexist, and simply revolting opinions should be kept to himself, until such time that he is no longer representing a public security organization, whose aim is to protect individuals, not punish the victim of crimes.
Lastly, if you took care to read, and study about such phenomena, you would understand that they dynamic that underlies sexual assault is not at all similar to what you have described. Please take care to become more informed, because your utter arrogance and ignorance can only assume the role of a burden for a fine society such as our own.
rape is wrong. even if she dressed like a ‘slut’, a ‘slut’ is NOT asking for rape, she is asking for consensual sex (and to be paid for it).
It seems as if sluts don’t believe in personal responsibility. These poor cops have to deal with sluts who refuse to grow up: http://goo.gl/ODyno
Let’s address a few of your comments. Let’s pay attention to all victims not just the one’s you may secretly covet. Are you saying elderley woman are eye candy? Little boys are eye candy? In fact there is absolutely no correlation between rape/ molestation and what the victim is wearing! I have stats to back this up. Do you honestly belive Hindu, sikh & muslim women are not sexually abused?!! It’s just not reported because those women would be blamed & punished for it. In many middle eastern countries its legal for a man to rape his wife! Are you excusing a violent act & abuse of power? Is that not like saying his car deserved to be stolen because he drives a BMW? That house deserves to be broken into & robbed because they have a nice tv? Rape/molestation are NEVER the victims fault!! It doesn’t matter what they wear/drink, which family member/uncle/teacher the trust or where they walk/work! The criminal is crossing a line & violating someone else because they are selfish, immature, have no control, have no honor, have a corrupt religion etc. Perhaps what you’re saying is that if you’re to choose a victim you would go for eye candy? You threatened, frightened & are not able to handle sexy women as your equal so that would make perfect sense. (It’s often about control & power issues not about sex.) I may not agree with the use of women in advertising in N.America but I’m glad I am free to dress & express myself as I wish. My final thought: Sex should be enjoyable, sacred, spiritual, sensual, fun and CONSENTUAL for both partners. I hope for your partners sake that you at least come to accept that. Women have just as much right as men to find pleasure in their sexuality without fear or rape.
rape is a war tactic, all who take part in it are therefore barbarians. people were raping before there was such a thing as “dressing like a slut”-and hindu, sikh, and muslim women get raped every day. is you support rape-and you do, according to what you’ve written (no bs one-line disclaimer at the end can hide that, just as no burqa can hide a woman from a rapist) than you are a moron, and anyone who is not blatantly against rape is FOR the metaphorical rape of his own people (rape historically was inflicted upon women with full knowledge that to destroy an entire group, one must destroy the women which are the core).
Rape is not about being turned on, nor is it about pepsi. It is about inflicting power upon another human being. It has nothing to do with outfits that turn people on-if it did, than cops would be raped all the time.
“Fair Game”, I am a Hindu and grew up in Mumbai. I wore ‘decent’ Indian clothes – salwar kameezes, fully covered my arms, legs & the rest of my body – except my face. I was molested in public transport on a daily basis. Men would feel me up and stare & say lewd things.
I am not the only one who faced this on a daily basis. Every girl I know who grew up in India and stepped out of her home was harassed.
Will your next suggestion be to stay at home & avoid going out, if you’re a woman?
You’re an ignorant misogynist and a clueless privileged man who has never had to face the humiliation of being touched or treated inappropriately.
How about this phrase: “Men can avoid sexually assaulting women by not sexually assaulting women.”
@Fair Game, “You can avoid acting like a misogynistic neanderthal by not acting like a misogynistic neanderthal”.
LOL @ women getting sexually assaulted due to the way they dress. Nothing but ignorance and hate.
You’re right – women ask to be raped. WHAT AN IDIOT. It’s people like you who make it hard for victims to ever ask for help .
So why is it that men who walk around public parks bare chested, only shorts on aren’t asking to be “raped”?!
We are all human, In our country, in this day and age we still have a major double standard!!
Yeah, because women who dress in their traditional clothing never suffer violence from men, except for honour killings, and forced marriages to old men, and being executed in ‘traditional’ societies for being raped (because all they were was their cherry, so when you have garbage you might as well throw it away, right?) while their rapist(s) gets the lash. Of course no one commits incest where ‘traditional’ values rule. No one’s gay either. We’d know if anyone did or was because those societies are so frank and clear eyed about such things. Those societies are not founded on a retrograde and backward superstitious idiocy.
and this is without getting into all the prepubescent girls who get raped, the old ladies who get assaulted, often in their own homes…
no, its all about the sluts you miserable stupid arse.
There have been thousands of Muslim and Hindu women worldwide who have been raped.. covered or not. The amount of ignorance infused in your comment is the reason people give up on society. Do you really believe that only women showing skin get assaulted?
It’s people like you who have taught this officer and other impressionable public figures that it’s okay to generalize people like this. A whole lot of you seem to take offence when someone tells it how it is though, so I expect you to be pretty upset with me at the moment.
TROLLLLLLLL!
Get back under yer bridge where you belong!
Well put… I also want to add that the officer isn’t implying that they deserve to be victims… Or that the perp shouldn’t be punished… He is simply stating that in order to avoid putting yourself in a situation of risk… Tone it down a little…. ! Much as a zookeeper might advise that you don’t strap a steak to your body and enter the lion cage! Use your heads ladies….!
Several women who were fully clothed have been brutally raped you fuck wit.
Rape is about control not women dressing in “slutty” outifts.
What is your problem? women should be able to dress however they want? They do not dress like sluts for men to rape them.
And exactly, everyone dresses this way now, does that mean everyone deserves to be raped or assaulted?
When making such ignorant comments think of your mother, sisters, nieces, grandmothers, etc.
You sir are a dumbass. 🙂
Are you serious? I have dressed in very modest clothing all of my life. I thought not dressing provocatively and not going out at dark hours would leave me safe. Was I safe? NO! I still ended up being sexually assaulted.
I also completely agree with the cop. Matter of common sense, really.
You’re an idiot. My best friend was raped in her Marine Corps Mess uniform; she was covered in head to toe with her damned rank on her shoulder.
You owe every man on the planet an apology for being so insulting. Men are completely capable of controlling their sexuality. No real man needs to rape a woman because he thought her skirt was sexy. Sure women dress to attract mates ,as do men, it is not an invitation to take something that without consent. I’m sure you know that .
Here again we see institutional feminism confronting society in an obnoxious, spoiled brat kind of way. I can hear the truckload of DONTATE NOW buttons hitting the webistes — This is such a ridiculous joke — I can’t wait for Harper to cut all funding to this nonsensical educational directive that is womens studies et. al. – a more divisive topic has never been adopted by our school systems and I’m terrified for any young man who has to live under the police state that these feminist architects have implemented. Stop giving court to these nutbags who wake up every morning determined to be offended…
But it is that the victim is being blamed. Men who say that are just trying to pass the blame onto the victim- ‘Oh you wore a miniskirt well it’s your own dang fault then’. It’s pathetic. Most girls who are raped don’t dress like sluts. Rape is entirely the fault of the rapist. I mean, do people want girls to walk around all day dressed like nuns and never go out at night? We shouldn’t need to do that. Men should be able to control themselves. Men aren’t accused of ‘dressing like sluts’ when they wear short shorts and walk around with no shirt.
women of all shapes, sizes, colors, ages, and dress get sexually assaulted. men should learn to control their anger and learn to treat people with respect. the real problem is men who believe they have the right to take what ever they want from women when ever they want.
your comment is so incredibly misogynistic, unfounded and dangerous. it is so far from depicting the realities of sexual violence and works only to perpetuate the myth that some how survivors of sexual violence (female or male) are responsible for their perpetrator’s actions.
sexual assault is defined by a lack of consent. period. no consent = sexual assault. no where in that legal definition is there any sort of wiggle room around dress, skirt length, traditional clothing, attitude or relative “sluttiness.”
and i’m going to go ahead and call bullshit on your claim that women who wear traditional clothing are not targets of sexual violence. talk to the women who walk into my office daily to share their stories of intimate partner violence. or the men who experience violence in their own lives.
also – it is unfair for you to make broad sweeping generalizations about “girls today” and the “whole lot of them taking offence.”
sorry if this comes off as curt, but you seem to be someone who appreciates people “telling it like it is.”
Fair Game, I happen to disagree with you. “You dress like a slut you will get treated like one” – what does that even mean? are “sluts” supposed to be treated differently than other women? That’s beyond ridiculous.
And what’s up with men choosing their “victim” based on how they dress? Do you really believe “hindu or sikh or muslim who was covered in their traditional clothing” don’t get sexually assaulted? It is evident from your illogical statements that you need some intense training on this topic.
“You dress like a slut you will get treated like one” – what does that even mean? are “sluts” supposed to be treated differently than other women? ”
great comment. It really doesn’t mean anything, just a thoughtless comment from somebody who doesn’t even think about what the implications of his words are. I know of women who were sexually harassed who were very conservatively dressed. As well, for some Muslim fanatics if a women shows even her face that is a justification to do whatever they want, because as in the previous comment “dress like a slut you will get treated like one”.
You are a disgusting excuse for a human being, and a poorly educated, socially ignorant one at that.
Anyone who knows the first thing about sexual assault is aware that it is a crime of power and has nothing to do with “eyecandy”. In fact, most victims of sexual assault know the perpetrator intimately – whether it be a family member, friend or other acquaintance. Are you going to tell me that children, the elderly and otherly abled women are assaulted because they are dressed like “sluts”? Did you actually just argue that Hindu, Sikh and Muslim women aren’t victims of sexual assault?
Let me educate you a little bit about what a “fair game” entails. A “fair game” is one in which a person feels safe walking around regardless of their gender, creed, religion, ability, sexual orientation or the way in which they choose to adorn their body. A “fair game” is one in which a victim of a heinous crime feels comfortable approaching a police officer – who, after all, is paid to protect citizens’ safety – without feeling judged or reproached.
Kudos to you for being one of the most ignorant and simple-minded people I’ve ever encountered.
Hey Fair Game,
I was raped . . . by my boyfriend. Your move.
I’m so sorry. Thank you for being brave enough to use your story to stick up for other women against insensitive jerks.
My ex attempted to rape me while retrieving belongings he had left at my house (fortunately, my dog is super protective and started biting him).
I was also sexually assaulted while wearing a long-sleeved, knee-length dress with a cami that hid my cleavage, my hair in a bun, heavy black stockings and ballet flats. Hardly slutty, didn’t stop five guys from surrounding me and groping/grabbing and trying to violate me until my friends caught them and kicked them out of the restaurant we were in.
Your dog is a better person than Fair Game will ever be.
I’m very sorry about the things that bad people have chosen to do and try to do to you. The last thing anyone (even worse a law enforcement officer!) should do is pretend you somehow made it happen, whether you were wearing a miniskirt or a burqa.
Women are raped in middle eastern countries where they cover up, too. Did you think of that?
Rapists attack people who are vulnerable. That can mean children and elderly people, too. Women with disabilities are more likely to be raped than those who are able-bodied for that reason. It’s not about provocative clothing. Rapists act out of a desire to hurt and humiliate their victims, and to have power over them. Isn’t this a whole lot more worthy of criticism than women’s clothing?
“You dress like a slut you will get treated like one” definitely implies that the victims are responsible for crimes against them, and is a disgusting statement that I can’t believe anyone would utter these days. Clothing is not consent for sex, as everyone knows, and “no” is not a hard word to understand. Arguing that rapists can’t understand it is a huge load of crap. After all, “no” is one of the first words we learn as children…so there’s no excuse for rapists regardless of what the victim was wearing.
It’s sad that people like “Fair Game” feel the need to criticize the victims rather than the violent criminals who abuse them…
There are so many things wrong with this statement but here are the things that really bother me:
1) The onus is NOT on the woman to not get raped, it is on the rapist to NOT RAPE. NO ONE ever deserves to be raped, and it is NEVER a woman’s fault that she was raped. NEVER. Even if she was dressing in a way that you don’t personally approve of.
2) Rape is not about sexual attraction, it is about POWER. Just because a woman is more covered does not mean that a man who is going to rape, will not rape her. It sounds AWFUL, and it IS AWFUL, but rape is not about “eyecandy”. It is all about power and trying to attain power by forcing someone into doing something they don’t want to.
Well when the rapists start listening then hurray for you, till then I suggest you take it upon yourself to help prevent rape. If you are raped it is no way your fault but again can’t help to reduce the chances.
This is the same way I take measures on not getting murdered. Yes the onus SHOULD be on the murderer to stop killing people I do however in the meantime not pick up hitchhikers.
I’d also like to point out that I also do not agree with Fair Game but I do agree with the officer in the article UNTIL I find evidence that is not a quote from the woman who took offense to the statement that the officer was implying that the women are to blame for the rape.
If the officer was simply saying not dressing like a slut can reduce the risk of rape (from opportunistic rape) then by all means he should be able to say that. Yes there will still be rapes on covered up women and “ugly” women but until the rapists decide to stop raping you’ll have to take the responsibility to help not get raped. Which again DOES NOT MEAN you take responsibility for getting raped if you do. RAPE IS WRONG REGARDLESS OF WHO HOW OR WHY IT IS DONE!
If you are trying to make a helpful or constructive point you’d be doing everyone a favor by not. Traditional Muslim women suffer rape. Nuns suffer rape. Grandmothers and little girls suffer rape. Dressing like a “slut” has nothing to do with it.
Of course no one wants to get raped and tries to avoid it!! No one wants to have their house robbed either! Just imagine your house is robbed & things that are special to you are destroyed. Imagine the police show up assess how ‘nice’ your garden looks. Now imagine they make you feel guilty (or even worse blame you) for attracting the thieves. They tell you it’s your fault. (seriously you’d be pissed!) No one would accept that! Are you picking up what I’m saying? Let’s realistically assume what attracts one thief to one house may not be the same as what attracts another thief to another house. Would an arbitrary authority telling us how to decorate our house so they all looked a certain way be effective? We can take all the precautions we can afford (deadbolts, bars on the windows & alarm systems) but if a thief still robs you would you not agree it’s not your fault?
We have the right to decorate & enjoy your home anyway we want! You may not agree with your neighbors idea of what looks ‘nice’ but you must agree you both deserve the same right to be protected? The thief should receive the same penalty regardless of how we each decorate our homes? The thief is at fault!
You’d also get pretty pissed off if a judge sentenced the criminal to 1month jail time because she thought your garden looked shitty but sentenced your neighbors thief to 2 yrs because theirs was nicer looking in the judges eyes!! Thats not how our system works! It shouldn’t work like that in rape cases either!!
How do sluts dress? Do I deserve to get raped because I’m wearing a skirt? How about if I tell you it goes past my knee, do I still deserve it now? If I’m wearing a long sleeved sweater, is that okay? Or does it have to be a certain degree of baggy before it passes your “shouldn’t get raped” standards?
Saying things like “dress like a slut you will get treated like one” is EXACTLY the kind of statement that contributes to the rape culture that makes men think rape is okay, and it’s wildly misogynistic – what, exactly, should MEN avoid wearing so they don’t get raped? Oh, there’s nothing? Men can wear whatever they want? But women have to dress with a degree of modesty defined by the individual minds of every man on the planet, or hey, it’s her fault.
And by the way, douchebag, women in hindu, sikh, and muslim cultures get raped ALL THE TIME. There’s a well-documented history of family members MURDERING women from those cultures who are raped, despite their “traditional clothing.” So, as it turns out, forcing women to cover up not only FAILS to protect them from rapists, but also dehumanizes them even further, by implying that after being raped, they’re not even worthy of life.
The way to stop rape is for RAPISTS TO STOP RAPING, not for women to swaddle themselves away from male gaze.
Well put sister. Agree on all fronts, glad someone is able to articulate exactly what is so offensive about this comment without relying on name-calling.
I don’t agree. I’ll have less hotties to look at >=(
Your comment reeks of ignorance. Women who dress provocatively are not the only women who get sexually assaulted. And there is no law against dressing in a way you think will attract the opposite sex. The idea that the way you dress is what gets you raped is beyond ridiculous. You and the police officer in question need a bit of education
Except that the thing about rapists is that *they rape people*
They rape women who are fat and they rape women that are thin.
They rape women who are tall and they rape women that are short.
They rape women of colour and caucasian women.
They rape women wearing snow pants and a parka on a winter day, or they rape a woman wearing a short skirt.
They use rape as a tool of war in war-torn countries.
They rape children, and they rape men.
They are family members, coworkers, police officers, doctors, bosses, students, teachers, friends.
So instead of trying to punish some women for being sexually active, or blaming them for the terrible thing that happened to them. You can encourage people to respect consent and bodily autonomy and *not* rape people.
Excuse me “Fair Game” you have no idea what you are talking about. How about you get educated and then talk. It doesn’t matter what women wear. Assault happens because people like you choose to focus on the victim rather than the perpetrator. “I’m sure” doesn’t carry much weight. Women should be able to wear what they want either way. That is not a reason. Assault is about power, it doesn’t matter whether she’s “eyecandy”. I suggest you take a course from Women’s Studies before you continue with your sexism.
I imagine you must dress like an ignorant misogynist because you certainly sound like one! Perhaps instead of choosing a “slut” to rape, the men responsible could just not rape anyone! What a crazy idea.
Fair Game, you sound like a real class act. Are you seriously under the impression that the only women who get raped are “eye candy”? I can’t think of a more ignorant comment you could have made.
Clearly you are a man who hates seeing women in control of themselves, and would prefer if we were all veiled to keep men from getting excited. I pity the women in your life. I’m sure you’d be really sympathetic if any of them were ever raped, but, hey, it would be their own fault if the rapist found them attractive, right?
Actually, no. It has been well established, time and time again, that rape has nothing to do with how someone is or isn’t dressed. That is a myth used to excuse rapists and blame victims, like what’s happening here. And even if there WAS a correlation, it would STILL be disgusting to blame victims for being raped, because it STILL wouldn’t be their fault.
The Toronto police officer’s comment is truly disturbing because he blames the victim for unwanted, forced sexual violence. Blaming the victim means that you hold the person who was attacked responsible for that violence that they suffered. It implies that the victim coulda, shoulda, woulda avoided the attack and therefore was partially responsible for what would inevitably happen. Sadly, that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Rape is regularly and consistently used every day by men all over the world as a way of asserting power and dominance over women. It is a system of control moreso than a sexual act, and therefore it really doesn’t matter what the woman is wearing.
It’s really sad that the police officer who made this comment is in a position of any kind of authroity. With flagrantly sexist and mysogenistic attitudes like that, women in Toronto are certainly less safe. He should be fired or resign from his duties.
You ARE aware that rape is rampant Hindi, Sikh and Muslim women, yes?
I cannot believe the last post. It is people like you that are the problem with society today! I am a male, and regardless of my gender I think that the victims of sexual harrasment should NEVER be to blame.
Do you think the way a woman dresses, really changes the perspective of a predator. How small minded are you? Have you not been reading about the recent events in egypt, where even women in traditional muslim clothing are being sexual harrassed?
Just an FYI, you and your opinion disgust me.
Hey, Fair Game.
News flash. Sexual assault is a crime of violence, not sex. It’s a power issue, not one of sexual attraction. When I was raped, I was wearing a winter coat, an oversized sweater and baggy jeans – what’s so slutty about that?
I’m sorry but what you wear has NOTHING to do with it, a lot of sexual assaults happen to women who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Or to women that have been watched for weeks or even months, and ‘Fair Game’ I bet you any money they don’t always look like sluts.
& just so you know, Muslims and Sikh women who do wear traditional clothing are just as much at risk if they’re in the wrong place, walking in dark areas and alone.
You and this officer disgust me.
The safety tips should have been general:
Avoid being alone late at night.
Stay in well lit areas.
Actually, there’s zero correlation between rape and how someone is dressed, even if you discount the fact that most assaults are committed by relatives and partners. Outside of the societal myths that support rape culture, there’s nothing linking costume, conventional attractiveness, health, fitness, weight, or any other physical trait with rape, completed or attempted.
None.
I also admit to being curious whether you actually believe that cultures which shame women into covering their bodies more fully are magical rape-free zones, which is what you seem to be suggesting.
You can’t have it both ways – either you’re blaming the attacker, or you’re suggesting there’s something the woman could have done to avoid being assaulted. There’s no middle ground there, at all. To say that women should expect to be assaulted and should modify their lives accordingly is to support the belief that women should be contained, covered, and chaperoned. It also infantilises men, suggesting there’s no chance that they could learn not to rape.
Rather than wasting time victim-blaming – and that’s what you’re doing, even with your mealy-mouthed proviso to the contrary – spend your time asking yourself exactly how we’re going to pound it into assailants’ heads that rape is bad, it is not excusable, it is not acceptable, and it is not ever anyone’s fault but theirs.
Superbly put, Judith. I could not agree with you more.
Are you fucking kidding me?!?! Cause everyone who gets sexually assaulted MUST be wearing something slutty
Fucking ignorant idiots 😐
You know nothing about the anatomy of rape, do you?
The elderly and babies are targeted, along with people anywhere on & off the gender spectrum, of all shapes, sizes, colours, creeds, wardrobes. It’s not about them looking pretty, hot, sexy, nor slutty. It’s about power.
The main purpose of rape is power for the rapist, not sexual gratification.
False false faaaalse. Are we fucking done with the sexism and rape apologism? Women do not get raped because of what they wear, but because a disgusting human being RAPED them. 80% of victims know their rapist, so quit it with the ”stranger in a dark alley raping a young woman with a short skirt” trope.
Muslim women are raped all the time. Ugly women are raped. Fat women are raped. Actually, 1 out of 6 women will be raped in her lifetime. You are an ignorant misogynist.
perhaps we should tell men who are victims of crime that it’s their fault too. maybe they should be advised that if they travel or go out at night, they’re just asking to be mugged or robbed. because they are after all just making themselves eye candy to the thieves.
You’re honestly calling women who are dressed like sluts “Fair Game” for being attacked? That gives someone fair reason to sexually assault a woman? Using your flawed theory, that gives me the right to attack you because you’re going around flaunting an opinion I don’t like. Same concept, there is no real logic behind it.
You sir, have your morals backwards. I also don’t understand why you are referring to it as ‘your’ Society like you are not a part of it too. You are a part of the so-called problem of half-naked women selling pepsi and coke and people purchasing it.
Use your head, innocent people have no right to be attacked.
Short version of Mr. ‘Fair Game”s comment: “women who don’t adhere to my religion should be raped.”
I’d say you just need to get laid, but, really, men like you need to be castrated. You’re encouraging violent criminals – if you’re not one yourself – and you’re giving the rest of us a bad name.
Work on your self-loathing, kid. Here’s a hint on where to start; women aren’t to blame for it. Stop punishing them because you’re afraid of their bodies and your own.
I hope you do some growing up before you really damage someone.
Well said George!! Great assessment of fair game’s personality! I’d say you got it exactly right! Hopefully he gets some help with his issues around sexuality and insecurity.
To the person who commented that if a woman dresses slutty, she is therefore to blame for any unwanted sexual advances/assaults should probably get their head examined. Completely backward and illogical thinking when it comes to womens’ issues like sexual assault is asinine and it’s that out of touch thought process that scare women off from reporting these crimes.
And the motivation to sexually assault a woman has been rarely reported as a result of what the victim is wearing compared to a crime of convenience (victim was easy to access and isolate), a result of the perpetrator’s upbringing (bad childhood/was assaulted as a child) ,societal pressures, etc.. A lot of these men also have social/behavioral issues, as well.
Lastly, women are assaulted everyday, whether they’re wearing a parka in the dead of winter, or short -shorts in the middle of summer. Neither are acceptable and neither is your comment. It’s actually quite disgusting and ignorant. It almost feels as if you think they DESERVE to be raped because of what they’re wearing. Personally, I think YOU deserve a smack upside the head for even writing any of that.
Much as I hate to admit it, the first comment does have a point. We live in a time when if you go to our ‘universities’ (our esteemed institutions of learning), all that the people are doing in the hallways, benches, under trees, in every place one looks is doing everything but having the actual act of sex. In such a pornified society as this where its all about flaunting what you got on a beach or at a university…people may not realize the attitudes that are fostered towards them when they act as ‘sluts’.
And yes its true that rape is not the exclusive domain of western foreigners, it still is a sizeable occurance as compared to other countries in the eastern part of the world (saudi arabia)-not saying that it doesn’t happen- but that its much much much less on a ratio basis even taking into account people who won’t report it because the same thing happens here in canada and the USA.
@Thinking about #1, too bad rape is not about sex then, and actually about power. Rapists rape people who are vulnerable, which has nothing to do with anyone’s perceived “sluttiness.”
Yea, the difference between what’s going on at the universities and what’s covered here is that one happens between two consenting adults and the other one is a CRIME.
So if you get married, have kids, so everyone knows decisively that you’re most definitely NOT a virgin, does that mean we can now declare a rape open season? OBVIOUSLY *NOT*.
It is immoral and illegal to force something upon another person, ESPECIALLY something as violent and degrading as rape!!!!!
personally, I feel people who wear a certain brand of clothing are all idiots but that doesn’t mean I now have a license to assault anyone wearing that brand of clothing!
You are full of it, “Fair Game” — and frankly seem to be getting a little too much enjoyment out of the idea that people “deserve” to be raped. Rape is a crime of power, to suggest it’s primarily sexual attraction that motivates it goes everything we know about the subject. You’re also full of it re: “traditional clothing” as we know damn well the rape culture that exists in some of the societies with very traditional dress. Seriously, look in the mirror, you are expressing some very backward and honestly borderline evil attitudes. This Officer was WAY out of line.
If you knew a single thing about sexual assault and rape you’d know it’s about power and dominance, not about ‘eye candy’.
You are completely correct.
Muslim women are obviously never the victims of sexual violence.
Sound logic.
A woman should not have to cover herself from head to foot to feel safe.
I blame the officer for being so crass, but it’s not like this is an isolated issue. This society fosters a rape culture, where it’s on the potential victim to hope they’re not picked out by some rapist tonight. It’s a society which makes women afraid to go to the police because they’re “asking for it” by dressing or acting a certain way.
Fair Game,
you’re a disgusting misogynist. Educate yourself.
Most women aren’t sexually assaulted because of how they dress. They’re usually assaulted by men that they know personally.
‘You dress like a slut you will get treated like one. ‘
So you’re justifying rape now, you pathetic scumbag?
‘That’s your progress, your business, your freedoms that the evil terrorists hate. ‘
That doesn’t even make any sense. Are you justifying Muslim terrorism because women wear tank tops and dresses that don’t cover their knees? How stupid are you?
‘They wouldn’t say—choose a hindu or sikh or muslim woman who was covered in their traditional clothing.’
So women need to be fully covered up to avoid being raped? What kind of sexist double standard is that? As a man I find you’re comment an insult to me personally. You’re treating men as if they’re animals who can’t control themselves. What a ignoramus you are.
And here’s a newsflash: Women don’t need to justify their worth to you by dressing the way you prefer them to dress. If you’re so small-minded that you’d judge a woman negatively not by her character and actions but by how much skin she shows, than you’re the one who needs to change.
Hey Fair Game…
My soulsister was sexually assaulted by a man at her synagogue when he drove her home. She wears long sleeved shirts, jeans, and never wears makeup. She’s one of the least “slutty” girls I know. Also, most cases of rape/sexual assault are done by men that are close to them such as boyfriends, husbands, relatives…
And of course, we haven’t touched upon same sex or female-on-male sexual assault.
That cop is a pig. Sexual assault should never be a frightening cloud that hangs over the heads of pretty or beautiful women. Some women can’t “ugly” themselves up to avoid being jumped by a pig. JUST DON’T DO IT! No matter what a victim “looks” like.
He’s also an idiot. Everyone knows that pigs who rape women or who expose themselves or whatever else, have serious mental problems that go way beyond their “weapon of choice.” Just because they can’t keep it in their pants, doesn’t mean it has ANYTHING to do with actual sex. Anger, rage, hatred, revenge and jealousy are the main reasons men rape.
Toronto Police are NOT educating their members! (Pardon the pun).
The policeman does not have to issue the apology. He has not done anything wrong. It is just a suggestion people. Dont make such a big deal over this! If you do not dress like sluts, then ignore the suggestion. Why bother to get so offended?
Dressing slutty at night is like wearing a redsuit when a stupid bull is around. Smart people will avoid dressing in red. Do not give rapers an incentive by not dressing slutty, trust me, it will help you alot. (Althought it has been proven that colour red does not anger a bull)
After all the policeman just voiced his thoughts – freedom of speech – and if you do not like it, then ignore it.
Lastly always look around when you are alone 🙂
It’s not just a suggestion, and women covering up won’t suddenly make rape go away or stop assaults. Not only is it an ignorant comment that the police officer made but the fact that he is a cop makes it worse because he is supposed to one of the “good guys” who will help the victims. As well, the definition of “slutty” can be almost anything. Maybe the pants were not baggy enough, shirt not baggy enough, should of wore a jacket, should of wore a veil….how far do you want to go? There is never a justification.
P.S. freedom of speech also involves the right to voice dissent against ignorance.
@Fair suggestion, It is absolutely wrong to spread misinformation like that because it leads to the perpetuation of a culture in which women are held responsible for a crime committed against them. It is absolutely NOT TRUE that promiscuous dress “attracts” rapists. Please educate yourself:
A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only 4.4% of all reported rapes involved provocative behavior (“sluttiness”) on the part of the victim. In murder cases 22% involved such behavior (as simple as a glance). Additionally most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing.
The policeman should issue an apology, though the explanation should be prepared by the police service and be to the effect of, “We did not properly educate this officer on the subjects he discussed.”
The logic you use is astounding. First you suggest there’s a relationship between rape and time of day, and then in one breath assert that one should not wear red around a bull while in the next seem to suggest awareness of the fact bulls are colour blind…
Lastly, awareness isn’t the best way to protect yourself. The average rapist is known to the victim, and spends time grooming said victim. If there’s not a previous relationship, the perpetrator takes steps to circumvent his victim’s awareness and preparedness. There is, frankly, no way to completely avoid being a victim. Rather it is better to make oneself a harder target.
No, what the policeman is doing is blaming the victim and in so doing he is creating an atmosphere in which rape is seen as being more acceptable because it really “not the rapist’s fault”. Unless this kind of crap is stamped on every time we hear it we will continue to have a society where women can’t even answer their own front door without the fear of rape.
No one asks to be raped, unless it’s a fantasy of yours. Period.
Freedom of speech isn’t quite the same thing when you’re in a position of formal public trust and wearing the uniform of a sworn service. Stop making stuff up.
People are making a big deal of this because you fundamentally DO NOT GET IT and are advancing a very dangerous line of reasoning. You are ENABLING the problem. You and your attitudes are PART of the problem. Listen and learn, stop being so pig-headed. This stuff counts.
People could cover every inch of skin, lock themself in a house, master self-defense, carry a knife, carry a gun, wear a locked metal “chastity belt”, and still get raped. We can take measures to protect ourselves, and still get assaulted. Sometimes sexual assault happens long after a person has been made a victim.
Sometimes the people who commit the crime are the ones we turn to for protection, the ones we think will never hurt us. Sometimes it can happen where we feel the safest. Sometimes it happens when we least expect it.
Subjectivity aside, what the police officer said is worse than unhelpful. If a person were to believe him, were to believe that by dressing conservatively s/he could avoid or discourage rape, they might believe they were safe.
That police officer is terrible. This whole “dressing like a slut” business actually has nothing to do with a woman’s preference of clothing. “Dressing like a slut” is an EXCUSE used by perpetrators to justify hurting another person.
To say that a woman who dresses how she wants to dress deserves to be raped is like saying that you deserve to be hit by a car if you’re around a road. It doesn’t matter if you’re at a crosswalk or have the pedestrian right-of-way or even on the sidewalk – you’re near the road, so I’m going to run you over with my car. Sure, I could CHOOSE not to and keep going on my merry way, but because you’re close to a street, it means you’re “asking for it,” right? I mean, if you didn’t want to become a victim of vehicular homicide, surely you would NEVER go near a road.
Everyone needs to chill out and take a look at this UN crime survey before we keep bashing the guy who made the first comment and the police officer in question:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
It is shown that the majority of the top 20 nations with the highest prevalence of rape in the world are those with the greatest female civil liberties, which includes the freedom to dress as they please. (South Africa, Australia, Canada, USA, France, UK, etc.) The others are mostly impoverished nations with weaker law enforcement established. (Jamaica, Zimbabwe, Dominica, Venezuela, etc.)
It is shown that many of the the bottom 20 countries surveyed are predominantly governed under Islamic Law or with a legal code modeled after Islamic Law, with far fewer female civil liberties. (Azerbaijan, Yemen, Indonesia, Qatar, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc.) Rape is actually found to be the least prevalent in Saudi Arabia, where many foreign observers find women to have the fewest civil liberties.
This information was found in about 2 minutes, which suggests that the people most in need of education are those blindly criticizing our friend who made the first post. His point is valid and so is that of the police officer, statistics show. However, the officer probably should have exercised more tact in his choice of words, which by the looks of them suggest that they have been taken somewhat out of context, in my non-expert opinion.
Please, before anyone tells me that I am placing the blame on victims, read the following: Rape is against the law and I do not condone it. The tragic fact is this: people are going to rape people no matter what. There is nothing anyone can do to eliminate it without revoking our civil liberties to extreme degrees.
The biggest problem with numbers and estimates on rape has to do with a severe under-reporting of these incidents, due in large part to cultural issues such as this one. If a woman feels embarrassed or worries that she won’t be taken seriously when reporting a rape (e.g. being told she looks slutty and was probably asking for it), why would she bother making it worse on herself? Embarrass the victim, protect the rapist. Not to mention how many women in other nations will get stoned to death for being an “adulteress” or having sex outside of marriage when someone (yes, even a family member) rapes them. There’s a lot of incentive to keep your mouth shut when someone violates you.
There are a lot of nuances here, and it’s hard to trust the numbers. Not that they should have anything to do with this–rape is rape, regardless of religion, dress, geographic location, sex/gender, age, or any other demographic someone should happen to pull out in defence of ignorance.
That site clearly says:
“DEFINITION: Total recorded rapes. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.”
The actual prevalence of rape IS NOT reflected in this chart, the website itself says so. This is a collection of reported rapes, not real prevalence.
In many Middle Eastern countries women who are rape victims can be publicly punished with lashings, killed by the family members or shunned by their community. Therefore, reporting is low. Try reading all the information before trying to use these statistics to your advantage.
I just want to point out that statistics like that are based upon REPORTED crime, or government estimates. In some countries being raped can lead to you being condemned to death, I’d say that’s a reason to keep it quiet. In countries with more equal rights for women, women are more likely to report crimes against them. In countries where rape is understood as a crime of power, and victim blaming is slightly less of a problem, more people will come forward. Even in the US, where I’m from, most assaults go unreported.
Look at the caveat on the survey you just posted: “Total recorded rapes. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.”
In countries governed by Islamic law, rapes are vastly under reported precisely because the victim is often blamed for somehow soliciting the assault. In many cases, when the victim is a woman, the victim is then charged with adultery. A man’s word counts more than a woman’s so the rapist can simply claim the woman seduced him to avoid a rape charge. Naturally, this reduces the number of recorded rapes because 1) it’s not recorded as a rape if it’s recorded as adultery and 2) who the hell risks reporting rape in a country where they’re more likely to punish the victims? This is precisely the reason why all of us are mad at rape apologists like Fair Game and the policeman in the article. They enable rapists by blaming the victim for the crime.
Also @Edgar Graham, shame on you for pretending to state the facts while at the same time confounding correlation and causation.* They are not the same. If you don’t condone rape, please don’t inadvertently contribute to rape culture by supporting rape apologists and not reading your own sources correctly.
*An example: While red hair and freckles often occur together (correlation), it does not necessarily follow that red hair CAUSES freckles (it doesn’t).
@mynameisbutters
Excellent comment but unfortunately too many people are so uneducated in science and basic statistics that they can’t separate correlation from causation.
There is research showing correlation between teenagers who have breakfast with family and sexual activity at a later age. An idiot would claim breakfast cereals have the magical ability to make kids more “moral” but in reality, it’s because typically, children who have breakfast with their family come from more close-knit families with more attentive parents.
These statistics don’t show anything about whether “dressing slutty” makes you more likely to be raped. I’d go so far as to say that countries where women’s freedoms are greatly restricted don’t create an environment where it’s easy for women to report rape in the first place. Rape is very prevalent in many African countries, for example, but do you think that society there provides recourse for victims, or even acknowledges that a crime has taken place in most cases?
You’ll notice the DRC isn’t recorded, where rape is used as a weapon of war. Also, many of those countries at the bottom of the list don’t consider marital rape a crime.
As the majority of responses to your post have pointed out, this is a report on sexual assault that is reported or otherwise recorded. The relationship between reports of sexual assault and the civil liberties women have in that country cannot be over-emphasized; it is far easier to report a sexual assault in a country which will take your report seriously. The report in question does not define “rape” or take into account the differences in definition by region. I prefer the term sexual assault, as it encompasses many different aspects of the term than just forced intercourse.
In many of the countries you reference as being in the bottom 20, reporting a sexual assault is a fast track to ostracism on the nice end of things. Can you imagine how difficult it must be for a woman to disclose sexual violence to the men who think her ankles are to be hidden? I know from travelling to some of these countries that women are blamed for many types of sexual assault, including being groped or frotteurised on public transit; these women should not be in public surrounded by men is the logic used. It does stand to reason that in a country where women are “allowed” to say no, they will report a man who doesn’t respect their use of the word or their attempts to protect their civil liberties and personal safety.
I don’t think you are necessarily placing blame on the victim, however, I do think it’s a good idea for you to look into the subject a little more thoroughly.
A few things the officer in question, as well as most of the comments, seem to disregard include male on male sexual assault, or even what dressing “like a slut” entails. The word is, after all, a misogynist insult in itself. If a young boy is assaulted, is it possible he also dressed like a slut? Or perhaps it’s more to the point that in justification of his actions a rapist will say he was overcome by feelings of lust based on his victim’s attire rather than say the truth: he is a violent offender who will take whatever excuse he can create to be violent toward his preferred victim.
Naturally countries where the legal penalty for having been raped is stoning have fewer rapes, not less reporting.
So if you have sharia law in these societies, then you have a situation wherein a woman’s testimony in a court of law is worth only half a mans. So if two men hold a woman down while a third rapes her, and then she goes to the police, her testimony counts for nothing against that of her three rPISTS, NO?
So how many fucking rapes do you think are likely to get reported in these shitholes?
Okay, here’s a serious question.
Is it okay or not okay for advertisers of products and makers of pop music video clips to use semi-naked models in slutty clothes and make-up?
There have undoubtedly been hundreds (if not thousands) of graduate theses on this very subject–I think the resounding answer to your question is, “The jury’s still out.” Or, at the very least, it will remain a contentious issue for a very long time (if not forever).
What is the bigger consideration to me is the definition of the word “slut” and its implied meaning. It’s a tired observation, but it’s still true–guys who sleep around are seen as manly and deserving of respect for their sexual prowess, whereas girls who have the confidence to enjoy their own sexuality while behaving the same way are completely disrespected and dismissed as tramps. Where’s the equality in that? Even when men get called sluts and whores in popular culture, the connotation is a positive or non-serious one.
Rather than do an overhaul on advertising practices, I’d like to see a complete rewrite of cultural understanding and acceptance when it comes to female sexuality. You can’t shame sluts if the concept of being a slut doesn’t exist.
Last I checked, dressing provocatively is part of their job description so I don’t really see your point! Part of their job description is also to be more attractive than the vast lot of us (except me because I’m gorgeous LOL LOL)
Come to think of it, you’ve posted more than one random non-issues that no one but you think is a thought provoker here.
If I were you I wouldn’t go around calling myself “clear thinking” because it’s an embarrassment.
Let us remember, people, that rapists are sick people; they enjoy violent and brutally having sex. How a woman dresses play very little in a rapist committing the act or not. Seriously, do you think that because you are wearing long jeans and a sweater you risk no chance of getting rape?? I have big news for you!
Pretending that the way women dress is a direct consequence of what men will do to do is actually both offensive for men and women: it seems to suggest that women who are covering more their body will not be victim of rape and it also suggests that men cannot control their actions (1) and that they enjoy brutally and violently forcing a women into having sex (2); i’m not sure how many men would enjoy this characterization of themselves.
@fairsuggestion
Women get raped every day by people that they know wearing almost anything. The last thing a victim needs to hear is that they gave the rapist an incentive to rape them. You have obviously never been raped, or else you wouldn’t utter something so ignorant and one sided.
When you tweet this; make sure to cc @torontopolice
Who here suspects that Fair Game is indeed the police officer, further running his mouth??
First to comment…? Sounds fishy.
I’m not making accusations, just wondering.
The biggest problem with this situation is that the officer will likely not have to suffer the consequences of his actions (the parallels to victim-blaming are astounding). My guess is a brief suspension with pay at worst, though a light slap on the hand in the form of a forced public apology is the most likely outcome.
While people recognize these kinds of comments as wrong, society doesn’t care about women enough (yet) to follow through on making examples of people who are in positions of authority, but who clearly shouldn’t be. By not taking this issue as seriously as it should, the police department is merely acknowledging public frustration with the officer in question rather than taking responsibility for the situation. True, you can’t control everything coming out of an employee’s mouth, but public servants have a responsibility to ensure that the people walking the streets are educated and sensitive to such damaging events.
As far as I’m concerned, the police representative’s PR spinning is just as bad as the cop’s comment. What are you investigating? He said it. People heard it. Time for justice. It’s almost as if they’re saying, “If women didn’t get raped so much, we wouldn’t have to be bothered with providing tips on how to stay safe. And then this issue would have never happened.”
Are you kidding me?
To all of you on here who are blaming the victim for dressing too ‘slutty’ or ‘sexy’. Has it occurred to all of you that this argument cheapens men as much as women by asserting that guys have absolutely no control over their instinct and that instinct will always trump our higher thought processes? By the same logic, those who wear expensive clothes were just asking to get robbed because nobody can control themselves, right?
Dressing provocatively may not be an invitation to rape but it IS an invitation to be treated as an object. Please note that I haven’t specified a gender.
It makes me sad that one moronic police officer can say something like this and makes the whole force look like misogynistic assholes. As a victim of sexual assault who DID go to the police, they aren’t all like this and I would actually say most of them aren’t.
I would like to know why this particular officer was chosen to speak on this issue when he has no understanding of it and is therefore clearly not qualified to do so. It isn’t as if there are no police officers in the city who have two brain cells to rub together, so what gives?